Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

01/30/2006 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 107 HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE TELECONFERENCED
Moved SCS CSHB 107(RES) Out of Committee
+ HB 269 HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE RELEASE LIABILITY TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 269 Out of Committee
+ HB 251 COMMERCIAL FISHING MULTIPLE PERMIT HOLDER TELECONFERENCED
Moved SCS CSHB 251(RES) Out of Committee
*+ SB 166 WILDLIFE CONSERVATION TAG TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
               SB 166-WILDLIFE  CONSERVATION TAG                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   THOMAS  WAGONER   announced   SB  166   to   be  up   for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR CON BUNDE,  sponsor of SB 166, said it  is a simple bill.                                                               
He related  that hunters and  fishers are becoming a  minority in                                                               
the enjoyment  of Alaska's wildlife,  but they have  borne nearly                                                               
the entire cost  of Alaska Department of Fish  and Game's (ADF&G)                                                               
management  of wildlife  and sport  fisheries. SB  166 creates  a                                                               
system  for those  who commercially  view wildlife  on a  tour to                                                               
step  up to  the plate  and make  a contribution  by buying  a $5                                                               
annual wildlife conservation tag.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He  said  that  some  people   don't  want  wildlife  viewers  to                                                               
contribute because then they could have  a seat at the table, but                                                               
that horse  is out  of the  barn. He  explained that  the tourism                                                               
industry  already has  proposals before  the Boards  of Fisheries                                                               
and Game  and has asked  the Division  of Wildlife to  manage the                                                               
resources for  viewing opportunities. Other people  are concerned                                                               
about  getting taxed  for  just opening  their  eyes and  looking                                                               
around, but  that's not the  case. The bill exempts  people under                                                               
16 and  over 60 who don't  have to pay for  other licenses. Other                                                               
people have told  him they want to be  responsible and contribute                                                               
to the management of wildlife.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The funds received  from the sale of the tags  are intended to be                                                               
used  for  management  programs that  directly  benefit  the  tag                                                               
purchasers and thereby  alleviating the pressure on  the ADF&G to                                                               
use hunter  and angler dollars  for non-consumptive  programs. It                                                               
would  support  constructing   wildlife  viewing  infrastructure,                                                               
boardwalks,  improving access,  developing roadside  interpretive                                                               
signs and other educational  programs generally fostering viewer-                                                               
related  economic development.  The  intent of  this  bill is  to                                                               
provide  services to  travelers and  tourists that  enhance their                                                               
opportunity  to   view  wildlife   thus  enhancing   the  tourist                                                               
industry.  Alaska  had 1.5  million  tourists  last year  and  53                                                               
percent of  Alaskans go out  of their  way to watch  wildlife; 74                                                               
percent want to know more about where and how to see it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:10:17 PM                                                                                                                    
A  federal  program,  called  Teaming  With  Wildlife,  has  been                                                               
endorsed by over  400 Alaskan business and  organizations. It has                                                               
produced about $3 million in  federal funding for non-traditional                                                               
non-hunting programs.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:11:54 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BERT  STEDMAN asked what  the difference is  between this                                                               
bill and a cruise ship head tax bill.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE replied  that SB  166 would  include everyone  who                                                               
uses some commercial enterprise to view Alaska wildlife.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:12:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR RALPH  SEEKINS asked if  the funds generated by  this tax                                                               
would help garner federal matching funds.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE replied yes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS said that the Fish  and Game Fund in AS 16.05.130                                                               
says that money  coming in from hunting licenses,  tags and fees,                                                               
plus  the  Pitman  Roberts  and  Dingle  Hatch  funds,  shall  be                                                               
allocated  by the  department to  programs  intended to  directly                                                               
benefit  license  purchasers  of general  hunting,  trapping  and                                                               
fishing  licenses  and  asked  if  this  measure  was  a  counter                                                               
balance.  Would the  money collected  from this  tag be  used for                                                               
programs  that are  not for  the direct  benefit of  the hunters,                                                               
fishers and trappers.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE replied that would  be a fair characterization, but                                                               
added that most hunters are also wildlife viewers.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:15:37 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR SEEKINS  said the  conflict is  there; hunters  object to                                                               
spending  funds   only  on  programs  that   don't  benefit  them                                                               
directly.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:16:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE added that his intent  is to allow those who do not                                                               
purchase  hunting licenses  to contribute  to  the management  of                                                               
fish  and  wildlife resources  and  that  would  appear to  be  a                                                               
counter balance.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:16:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIM  ELTON asked how  transportation language on  page 2,                                                               
line  2, would  affect the  ski lifts  at Girdwood  or Eaglecrest                                                               
where transportation  is provided to  the top  of the slope  in a                                                               
setting where one may have an opportunity to view wildlife.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  replied that it  is not  his intent to  impact ski                                                               
lift operations where seeing wildlife  is incidental. However, he                                                               
would  target  a  flight  seeing  tour or  any  other  number  of                                                               
commercial ventures that have wildlife viewing as a goal.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:18:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON asked  how it  would impact  situations in  Juneau                                                               
where people  purchase tickets  on a vessel  to view  whales that                                                               
aren't  managed by  the state.  He asked  if it  is a  stretch to                                                               
collect a fee to view federally managed marine mammals.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE replied they could see other state wildlife.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said  he is bothered by collecting  fees that don't                                                               
find their way  back to that specific use -  like state park fees                                                               
that  often don't  go  back  to maintenance  of  state parks  and                                                               
business license  fees that may cost  $200, but don't go  back to                                                               
the Department  of Commerce.  He asked how  much would  really go                                                               
back.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE deferred that answer  to the commissioner of Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish and Game  (ADF&G), but his experience has been                                                               
that  duck  stamp   fees  have  found  their  way   back  to  the                                                               
intentioned area.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:21:13 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked  if he considered taking  the Alaska Railroad                                                               
from his home in Anchorage to Seward, would he get charged.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE replied that he  wouldn't get charged for traveling                                                               
to and from a residence.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON asked  if  you get  to Seward  and  take a  whale-                                                               
watching vessel  and buy a tag,  would you get a  credit for that                                                               
$5 when you buy your hunting license and duck stamp in the fall.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE replied  that you  have to  buy a  hunting license                                                               
first to not have to pay the wildlife conservation fee.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:23:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  asked if a  commercial transporter would  have any                                                               
liability if he doesn't ask for proof of a tag.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
LAUREN RICE, staff  to Senator Bunde, replied that  a provider of                                                               
the service is not penalized, but  if a person knowingly fails to                                                               
purchase a wildlife  conservation tag, he is treated  the same as                                                               
a hunter hunting without a license,  a Class A misdemeanor with a                                                               
fine up to $300.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  said he  wanted a definitive  answer on  whether a                                                               
provider has liability.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:25:14 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR SEEKINS asked  if he has a hunting license,  does he have                                                               
to buy another tag.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE replied no, if  you have an Alaska hunting license,                                                               
you are exempt.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER asked  if someone who is over 60  years old and has                                                               
a permanent license is exempt from purchasing this tag.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE replied yes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked why the  Alaska Marine Highway  System was                                                               
excluded since people use it as a cruise ship in the summer.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said he did not  intend to charge people  who just                                                               
drive on  the highway or take  the Alaska Marine Highway,  but he                                                               
offered to  entertain an amendment  if Senator Stedman  wanted to                                                               
include them.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:27:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON said  he thought  the language  meant that  people                                                               
riding the  Alaska Marine  Highway would  be charged  unless they                                                               
were traveling to or from their home.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  referenced language  on  page  3, line  12,  that                                                               
focused on people  traveling to and from their  residence, but it                                                               
appears that tourists would not be exempt from purchasing a tag.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RICE added that a person  who could prove he was traveling to                                                               
or from  his home  would be  exempt on  the Marine  Highway. Non-                                                               
residents  would have  to pay  as  would residents  who would  be                                                               
taking a leisure trip.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:29:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN asked if a  spouse who travels with an individual                                                               
with a hunting license has to pay the fee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. RICE replied yes.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE pointed out that this tag is a yearly purchase.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  said  he  needed   clarification  that  a  person                                                               
traveling  on the  Alaska  Railroad or  the  Marine Highway  from                                                               
Haines to Juneau to shop for food didn't have to pay a fee.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BUNDE suggested that the $5  fee would not be noticeable on                                                               
top of a $300 or $400 ferry ticket.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RICE added  if  an individual  was going  from  his home  to                                                               
another destination, he would technically be exempt.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:32:55 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN   PAGE,   Seward,   said   he   thought   this   tax   would                                                               
disproportionately impact  smaller businesses like  his. He  is a                                                               
tour provider and his tours are  priced less than those booked on                                                               
a tour  ship. He  was concerned  about how  the program  would be                                                               
administered  because  many visitors  to  the  state do  multiple                                                               
tours and  they often use online  booking or calling on  a phone,                                                               
which would make  verification difficult. He also  asked how they                                                               
would  guarantee  that  the  money would  be  channeled  back  to                                                               
conservation and if a board  would oversee how those monies would                                                               
be spent. Finally,  he asked for an estimate of  how many dollars                                                               
this program would generate.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER  answered that it  should generate $4.6  million to                                                               
$5.8 million between FY 2007 and FY 2012.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:36:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  BUNDE explained  that an  individual  must have  a tag  in                                                               
order to not be assessed another fee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DAN MCDONALD, Seward, opposed SB  166 because it targets tourism.                                                               
It  would put  smaller tour  operators at  a disadvantage  to the                                                               
more  expensive  ones.  He  mentioned  that  all  tour  operators                                                               
currently have  to deal with the  price of fuel going  up and the                                                               
state is benefiting  from the price of fuel going  up. The $5 fee                                                               
seems to be  unreasonable once administration of  it is accounted                                                               
for,  he  didn't  see  much  of  it  going  to  actually  promote                                                               
conservation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KIM  KIRBY,  Southeast Sea  Kayaks,  opposed  SB 166  because  it                                                               
targets  visitors and  residents alike.  She thought  that Alaska                                                               
would  do  irreparable  harm  to its  image  by  taxing  wildlife                                                               
viewing. People already pay a premium  to get up here and to live                                                               
here and the state is trying  to encourage visitors. She was also                                                               
concerned that as  a small business owner, the onus  will fall on                                                               
her  to police  the system,  which might  require hiring  another                                                               
person.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LEN  LAURANCE said  he represented  Alaska Rainforest  Sanctuary,                                                               
Inter Island  Ferry Authority  (IFA) and  Taquan Air.  He noticed                                                               
that the  Alaska Marine  Highway, as a  public entity,  is exempt                                                               
from bond  requirements, but SB  166 treats the  IFA differently.                                                               
The $5  fee would have a  negative impact on the  revenues of the                                                               
IFA,  which is  not subsidized  and is  totally dependent  on the                                                               
revenues it generates to cover operating costs.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He said the  Alaska Rainforest Sanctuary is  a privately operated                                                               
30-acre nature  preserve on the  Ketchikan road system.  He asked                                                               
how this bill would apply to this kind of private tour property.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The third  business he represents  is Taquan Air, a  local flight                                                               
seeing operator  and he asked  if this  fee would apply  to Misty                                                               
Fjords  Flight Seeing  that  focuses on  scenic  wonders and  not                                                               
wildlife  viewing. Taquan  also  has viewing  trips where  people                                                               
actually land and take a  trail into the Tongass National Forest.                                                               
Taquan Air pays a per person  user fee to the U.S. Forest Service                                                               
for that  use. He  asked if  this would add  another fee  to that                                                               
activity. He concluded saying:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Instead  of improving  tourism, this  legislation would                                                                    
     tend to  kill the  goose that lays  the golden  egg. It                                                                    
     would also  be an administrative nightmare  from a tour                                                                    
     operator's point of view.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:45:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER noted that when  people are viewing wildlife on the                                                               
Rainforest Sanctuary, the wildlife is not privately owned.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAURANCE  responded  that they  wouldn't  be  classified  as                                                               
wildlife. They  have a  half dozen  reindeer that  were purchased                                                               
and  those require  a permit  to be  kept. The  guests also  view                                                               
Alaskan reindeer, which are not wild.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER asked if they are supplying domesticated animals.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAURANCE  added that  they  are  not supplying  the  eagles,                                                               
because they just come and go.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
4:47:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  related that some  interpretations of  federal law                                                               
say you  can't apply a sales  tax to flight seeing  operations in                                                               
which a plane takes off and  lands at one location and he thought                                                               
the sponsor might want to consider.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  responded that if the  Misty Fjords' advertisement                                                               
mentions wildlife,  this fee would  certainly apply. He  has also                                                               
lived in Ketchikan and knows Misty  Fjords and, "You'd have to be                                                               
blind in  one eye  and not  be able to  see out  of the  other to                                                               
travel that  area and not see  Alaska wildlife." He was  not sure                                                               
how a $5 charge that  only applies to non-residents and residents                                                               
not coming to and from their home would put them under water.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He  thought  revenue  from  this tag  would  really  enhance  the                                                               
state's support for tourism, because,  in his view, this industry                                                               
returns so  little to the  general fund  now that's it's  hard to                                                               
justify increased state investment in it.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN said  he wanted  a definitive  answer on  how it                                                               
would  apply  to  the  Inter  Island  Ferry  and  other  aviation                                                               
enterprises.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:50:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON informed the committee  that the Inter Island Ferry                                                               
is not a  part of the Alaska Marine Highway  and therefore has no                                                               
exemption from bonding.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:50:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHUCK SLAGLE, Baranof Skiff Excursions,  said that $5 does make a                                                               
difference to his  profit margin. "It's nothing more  than a head                                                               
tax with a  different name on it." He said  this state is getting                                                               
a reputation for  greed and asked, "Where does it  stop?" He said                                                               
the one-day fishing  license fee was raised from $10  to $20 this                                                               
year. That is a 100 percent  increase so that a grayling hatchery                                                               
could be built in Fairbanks and  he didn't know how much would be                                                               
eaten up by a new bureaucracy to manage it.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STAN  STEVENS, Stan  Stephens Charters,  opposed SB  166. He  was                                                               
against targeted taxes. He wanted to  see an income or sales tax,                                                               
because they  would show how  valuable tourism is to  this state.                                                               
He also agreed  with others that this would  be an administrative                                                               
nightmare.  He runs  a daily  average of  300 people  through his                                                               
business  and  none  of  them  are  from  tour  ships.  They  are                                                               
independent travelers or mostly Alaskans.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT  REISLAND, Denali  Grizzly  Bear Resort,  said  he is  also                                                               
representing the Alaska Campground  Owners Association. They were                                                               
both concerned  about this bill's  impact on the RV  industry and                                                               
the fly  and drive rental businesses.   It was unclear  that they                                                               
would be included  or exempted. It would be difficult  for him to                                                               
pull everyone  out of their  RVs to make  sure they have  a stamp                                                               
and would require him to hire one other person.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:59:22 PM                                                                                                                    
He mentioned that some visitors  to Denali Park don't see animals                                                               
for different reasons and that a  $5 user fee is about 20 percent                                                               
of the  cost of  the fee at  the San Diego  Zoo where  people are                                                               
guaranteed to see animals.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:00:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER said  he didn't know of anyone marketing  a trip or                                                               
wildlife viewing  tour that mentions  how much sales tax  or fees                                                               
are included.  He asked Mr.  Reisland if he markets  his packages                                                               
that way.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  REISLAND responded  that he  breaks  down his  costs in  his                                                               
marketing.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:01:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE responded  that RV  parks are  not included  in SB
166. He  pointed out that  hunters and  fishers buy a  license to                                                               
hunt, but  not a  license to  kill or to  catch. Hunters  go away                                                               
disappointed,  as  well. He  emphasized  that  buying a  wildlife                                                               
viewing tag is paying for an  opportunity to attempt to view, not                                                               
a guarantee.  The vendors  get $1  a piece for  every one  of the                                                               
tags they sell to cover their administrative costs.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:01:57 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  said the argument  could be made that  someone who                                                               
rents an RV is a provider of commercial transportation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE thanked  him for  pointing that  out and  he added                                                               
that he  thought this tag  would be mainly self-policed  and that                                                               
he has received  emails from tourists saying they  would be happy                                                               
to  pay an  extra  $5  to have  a  bigger  voice in  conservation                                                               
management.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:03:26 PM                                                                                                                    
RON  PECK,   President,  Alaska  Travel  Industry,   agreed  with                                                               
previous   testimony   in   opposition  to   SB   166   regarding                                                               
application,    reputation,    implementation,   execution    and                                                               
administration.  He   noted  the  exemption  for   RV  users  who                                                               
regularly  see  wildlife  and  questioned   how  trams  that  are                                                               
operated  in the  summer would  be affected.  The one  at Alyeska                                                               
costs $16  right now and  he has  frequently seen black  bears on                                                               
that trip. He questioned how  people riding the Marine Highway or                                                               
the Alaska Railroad would be affected  and how a penalty would be                                                               
assessed to a non-stamp holder.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:08:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER announced that SB 166 would be held for further                                                                   
testimony on February 6 and adjourned the meeting at 5:09:19 PM.                                                              

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